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	<title>Comments on: What is keeping women out of tech? Do you really want to know?</title>
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	<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/</link>
	<description>On teaching and participating in online media.</description>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-450</guid>
		<description>Hey, Bree, that&#039;s what we were saying in 1985.  The situation actually seems to have deteriorated somewhat since then.  Not really buying it anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Bree, that&#8217;s what we were saying in 1985.  The situation actually seems to have deteriorated somewhat since then.  Not really buying it anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-448</guid>
		<description>I had a thoughtful reply all ready, but then I got distracted by Man and his Good Girls and Good Guns.  I had a good old laugh and now I&#039;ve forgotten what I was going to say.  

Snort.  Still funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a thoughtful reply all ready, but then I got distracted by Man and his Good Girls and Good Guns.  I had a good old laugh and now I&#8217;ve forgotten what I was going to say.  </p>
<p>Snort.  Still funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-447</guid>
		<description>I work in IT. I&#039;m a woman. I&#039;m lucky.

Not because I &quot;made it so far in a male dominated world&quot; or any other reason like that that makes it sound like I worked any harder than anyone else.

I made it through determination because I love working in web and in IT (rather than web for marketing or another similar).

I&#039;m lucky because I work for a manager who believes that it doesn&#039;t matter what lies between your legs, that it&#039;s what you can do with your brains that matters. So because of that, all three techy women in my department are working for him. It&#039;s not that the others discriminate - often the only candidates that are put forward are males.

And I&#039;ve hit this before.

Recruiters are as much to blame at times for girls missing out on techy spots as society is for putting girls into non techy roles.

I know of a manager who put in for two roles. One was a desktop support engineer, the other a project admin role. The project admin role received all females (some with very impressive degrees and experience) from the recruiter and the desktop support engineer was all males.

Now. You might say that maybe that was all that was provided for each role... not so. On chatting to one of the females for the admin role, as it turned out - she applied for the desktop support role!

There&#039;s a lot that needs to be changed. Society needs to encourage people (in general) to do what they&#039;re good at - not what is the &quot;done thing&quot;. Feminists who push the hardcore views that turn off some girls from being seen as &quot;tough&quot; need to back off and let girls do what they can do without it becoming a campaign that she&#039;s working in a male dominated area. And finally - we all need to stop looking at the sex of the worker and start looking at the skills and push people towards what they&#039;re good at.

But that&#039;s just my thoughts... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in IT. I&#8217;m a woman. I&#8217;m lucky.</p>
<p>Not because I &#8220;made it so far in a male dominated world&#8221; or any other reason like that that makes it sound like I worked any harder than anyone else.</p>
<p>I made it through determination because I love working in web and in IT (rather than web for marketing or another similar).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m lucky because I work for a manager who believes that it doesn&#8217;t matter what lies between your legs, that it&#8217;s what you can do with your brains that matters. So because of that, all three techy women in my department are working for him. It&#8217;s not that the others discriminate &#8211; often the only candidates that are put forward are males.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ve hit this before.</p>
<p>Recruiters are as much to blame at times for girls missing out on techy spots as society is for putting girls into non techy roles.</p>
<p>I know of a manager who put in for two roles. One was a desktop support engineer, the other a project admin role. The project admin role received all females (some with very impressive degrees and experience) from the recruiter and the desktop support engineer was all males.</p>
<p>Now. You might say that maybe that was all that was provided for each role&#8230; not so. On chatting to one of the females for the admin role, as it turned out &#8211; she applied for the desktop support role!</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot that needs to be changed. Society needs to encourage people (in general) to do what they&#8217;re good at &#8211; not what is the &#8220;done thing&#8221;. Feminists who push the hardcore views that turn off some girls from being seen as &#8220;tough&#8221; need to back off and let girls do what they can do without it becoming a campaign that she&#8217;s working in a male dominated area. And finally &#8211; we all need to stop looking at the sex of the worker and start looking at the skills and push people towards what they&#8217;re good at.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just my thoughts&#8230; <img src='http://www.foxforcefive.com/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Janet Horton</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Horton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-433</guid>
		<description>Your post reminded me of CeBIT 2009 in Sydney where at least 3 vendors were still using hired women in short skirts, tight tops to draw traffic to their booths.  

The message that sends does not help the &#039;women in IT&#039; cause one bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post reminded me of CeBIT 2009 in Sydney where at least 3 vendors were still using hired women in short skirts, tight tops to draw traffic to their booths.  </p>
<p>The message that sends does not help the &#8216;women in IT&#8217; cause one bit.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ Gorsky</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ Gorsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-432</guid>
		<description>http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/153/c/7/Girl_Gamers_by_FizTheAncient.png</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/153/c/7/Girl_Gamers_by_FizTheAncient.png" rel="nofollow">http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/153/c/7/Girl_Gamers_by_FizTheAncient.png</a></p>
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		<title>By: What is keeping women out of tech? Do you really want to know?</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>What is keeping women out of tech? Do you really want to know?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-431</guid>
		<description>[...] enter the same tired blogging debate in women in tech. Fran Molloy, a commenter on my blog, put it quite nicely: No women in tech? Witness the rise and rise of ‘mumpreneurs’ who don’t have formal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] enter the same tired blogging debate in women in tech. Fran Molloy, a commenter on my blog, put it quite nicely: No women in tech? Witness the rise and rise of ‘mumpreneurs’ who don’t have formal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-430</guid>
		<description>I gave a seminar on IT governance to a range of info architects (and a CIO).  The proportion of women in that audience was certainly higher than the proportion of women in the programmer level, and certainly more than female programmers and sysadmins 20-30 years ago.

That said, what few women were in the game back in the 70s/80s were as competent and geeky as the good male geeks... there were none that had got into the game for the money.

My gut feel is that when it comes to defining ontology and taxonomy for the semantic web, data labelling, etc, the more subtle linguistic skills required are found in a higher proportion of females than males.

It would be interesting to see some detailed breakdowns by type of work and seniority, although it would be hard to do a useful breakdown, between the no-BS &quot;Alice from Dilbert&quot; types (who have always been great to work with) and the power-dressing political types (who have made my life miserable more often than not).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave a seminar on IT governance to a range of info architects (and a CIO).  The proportion of women in that audience was certainly higher than the proportion of women in the programmer level, and certainly more than female programmers and sysadmins 20-30 years ago.</p>
<p>That said, what few women were in the game back in the 70s/80s were as competent and geeky as the good male geeks&#8230; there were none that had got into the game for the money.</p>
<p>My gut feel is that when it comes to defining ontology and taxonomy for the semantic web, data labelling, etc, the more subtle linguistic skills required are found in a higher proportion of females than males.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see some detailed breakdowns by type of work and seniority, although it would be hard to do a useful breakdown, between the no-BS &#8220;Alice from Dilbert&#8221; types (who have always been great to work with) and the power-dressing political types (who have made my life miserable more often than not).</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessee Leeuwenburg</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessee Leeuwenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-429</guid>
		<description>There is also a &quot;Diversity in Python&quot; wiki page for anyone who&#039;s interested: http://wiki.python.org/moin/DiversityInPython.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also a &#8220;Diversity in Python&#8221; wiki page for anyone who&#8217;s interested: <a href="http://wiki.python.org/moin/DiversityInPython" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.python.org/moin/DiversityInPython</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessee Leeuwenburg</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessee Leeuwenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-428</guid>
		<description>If you like, come along to any of the Melbourne Python user group meetings (http://bit.ly/mpug). We&#039;re a friendly bunch and I like to think that the women who attend feel comfortable and welcome. We don&#039;t push any agendas, and just get together regularly to keep in touch. There are usually some presentations too...

Cheers,
-Tennessee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you like, come along to any of the Melbourne Python user group meetings (<a href="http://bit.ly/mpug" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/mpug</a>). We&#8217;re a friendly bunch and I like to think that the women who attend feel comfortable and welcome. We don&#8217;t push any agendas, and just get together regularly to keep in touch. There are usually some presentations too&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
-Tennessee</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Molloy</title>
		<link>http://www.foxforcefive.com/2009/11/what-is-keeping-women-out-of-tech-do-you-really-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Molloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foxforcefive.com/?p=354#comment-427</guid>
		<description>Maybe there&#039;s a hell of a lot more women in tech than &#039;Next Web&#039; knows about; who says that being &quot;in tech&quot; means being an employee?  

Your battle with the &#039;employee&#039; notions that the universities have in order to boost students&#039; understanding of startups is a classic example of that kind of dinosaur thinking, Sarah!

No women in tech? Witness the rise and rise of &#039;mumpreneurs&#039; who don&#039;t have formal qualifications, don&#039;t go to industry conferences, don&#039;t self-promote &quot;Look at me, i&#039;m in TECH and I&#039;m a chick, wow!!&quot; but learn on the job, get the work done and get on with their lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there&#8217;s a hell of a lot more women in tech than &#8216;Next Web&#8217; knows about; who says that being &#8220;in tech&#8221; means being an employee?  </p>
<p>Your battle with the &#8216;employee&#8217; notions that the universities have in order to boost students&#8217; understanding of startups is a classic example of that kind of dinosaur thinking, Sarah!</p>
<p>No women in tech? Witness the rise and rise of &#8216;mumpreneurs&#8217; who don&#8217;t have formal qualifications, don&#8217;t go to industry conferences, don&#8217;t self-promote &#8220;Look at me, i&#8217;m in TECH and I&#8217;m a chick, wow!!&#8221; but learn on the job, get the work done and get on with their lives.</p>
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